Interview with Sandy King Carpenter

We've finally published what we hope will be the first of several interviews with some of the people behind Prince of Darkness. On December 3rd, I was fortunate to be able to talk at length with Sandy King Carpenter - producer, script supervisor and also wife of Prince of Darkness director John Carpenter. Sandy had some fascinating insights into the making of POD and of the movie industry in general. Hope you enjoy it.

A big thank you to Sandy for her time and generosity and also to Sean at Storm King Productions for helping to set this up.

jcpod.net: Hi Sandy, thanks so much for agreeing to talk with us. I know your schedule must be pretty tight.

SKC: No it’s fine, it’s Friday afternoon! Things are cool.

jcpod.net: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself first of all? How did you start in the mad bad world of Hollywood?

SKC: (laughs) Well I was an artist who became an animator, and then I went into script supervision because all of my friends were over in live action. I was busy drawing cartoons and my background seemed to be suited for going into continuity.

I did some second-unit directing, unit managing that kind of thing. But really I was mostly a script supervisor and that was how I met John. I’d done script supervision on Starman and progressed onto his other films. I was associate producer on Prince of Darkness. But I had had a long standing bet with a costume designer friend of mine who had gotten her first main title single card credit on a Michael Mann movie. I remember saying to her “Gee I hope I get a main title single card credit someday”. And she said “Oh a script supervisor will never have that!”

And so when I was given my choice of credits on Prince of Darkness I said I wanted script supervisor on a main title single card, because it had never been given to anyone in Hollywood. So that explains that because everyone always wants to know about it! So I still hold my card in the script supervisor’s union and I still do script supervisor on second units. I’m very crew oriented.

jcpod.net: Yes we noticed on your IMDb profile that your nickname is ‘Mother Production’. Can you tell us the origins of that?

SKC: Oh there was an Assistant Director that used to call me that, probably because I just look after everybody. On the walkie talkies on set, they’d send out messages like “Where’s Mother?” when they’re looking for me to come solve a problem. It’s just a joke.

jcpod. net: You mention you started in animation. Did you study this at college?

SKC: Yeah I came from the art department - I was actually an art major and the film department at UCLA was right next door. At a certain point I had completed everything in my major and I was hanging out more and more in the film department where I became interested in animation. That’s how I started earning a living because painters starve! I worked on some films with Lewis Hall and Carlos Guiterrez-Mena. We did a film called Anti-matter which won an Academy Award in 1973 for best animated short.

jcpod.net: Your production company is called Storm King Productions. When did this come into being?

SKC: I don’t remember the exact date, sometime around 1990 or so. It’s named for StormKing ranch that I grew up on as a kid in Colorado. I named it in honour of my father and grandfather.

jcpod.net: So you’re originally from Colorado?

SKC: Actually half Colorado, half Los Angeles. I was born in Los Angeles but grew up on the ranch in Colorado. But born in LA, my mother was born in LA. Straight up LA, although my mother’s family are from Ireland.

jcpod.net: No way! That’s terrific. After Starman, you worked with John on Big Trouble in Little China and then in 1987, Prince of Darkness was released. It’s such an original and, to use a slightly clichéd word, audacious movie. How did it come about?

SKC: John was really fascinated with quantum mechanics. He thought it would really be fun to work physics and religion together into a movie. He had a multi-picture deal with Alive Films in conjunction with Universal and Carolco that gave him the ability to do pictures based on pretty much a one paragraph synopsis. So it seemed like a really fun thing to try.

jcpod.net: On the Region 2 DVD, John mentions that it was shot for very little money, even by mid-'80s standards – something like 3 million dollars?

SKC: Yeah a little bit over that, I think it was 3,250,000.

jcpod.net: What’s fascinating about Prince of Darkness and many of John’s other movies, is that his low budget ones don’t look like low budget productions. Everything from the cinematography to the special effects all look like they had a much bigger budget to draw upon.

SKC: I think the key to that is that we’ve had the same people working on our movies, no matter what the budget is. We’ve had a core group of people through the years with whom we have the same mindset. So it doesn’t really matter whether it’s low budget or high budget when you’ve got an understanding with a group of people you’ve worked with before and are comfortable and familiar with them.

The second thing is you write for the budget – you scale down the scope of what you’re doing and keep it contained if it’s a lower budget film. You’re not doing grandiose effects or moving to outside locations – you do what you can do within those parameters and you do it well. And you choose your stories based on that obviously – you don’t try and do big car chases through the centre of a city that you’ve shut down if you just don’t have the money. You do a more intimate movie.

jcpod.net: Do you remember the actual shooting dates for Prince of Darkness?

SKC: Oh man no! (laughs) I don’t remember! When did we shoot it... I am the world’s worst person for dates. I always have to count backwards from something else that happened... Uh... I think it would have crossed over, maybe late ‘86 early ‘87.

jcpod.net: The church used in the movie was a great find.

SKC: Yeah it’s in downtown LA in Little Tokyo, right across from the police station.

jcpod.net: Was it tricky to secure the building for shooting?

SKC: No (laughs). A location scout made a deal with them!

jcpod.net: Was there anywhere else in the running to depict St. Godard’s or did you know you’d found the perfect building the second you saw the church in Little Tokyo.

SKC: No that was pretty much it, it just looked right.

jcpod.net: How much of the movie was actually shot there and how much was shot on a soundstage?

SKC: The entrance hall and the main computer room scenes were shot there and the rest of the scenes, the smaller rooms and the main hallway were shot on stages out in Valencia, out in the San Fernando Valley.

jcpod.net: And the underground chapel?

SKC: The main underground basement where the canister was an old condemned athletic club in Long Beach. Now that place was tricky because it was condemned. But it looked so cool.

jcpod.net: How did you go about casting for the movie? Donald Pleasence was a great choice for Fr. Loomis, (the priest who calls in the help of the University). Was he your first choice for the role?

SKC: Yeah he was the first person, we just dealt with his agent. I don’t remember his agent’s name but Donald was who we wanted for the role so it was just a question of making the deal. With Donald and Victor Wong (Professor Birack) and Dennis Dun (Walter) we knew exactly who we wanted.

jcpod.net: And the others would have gone through the usual auditioning process?

SKC: Pretty much, although I have to say usually what happens is that John has a very good idea of the type of person he wants for a role. We tend not to do giant casting calls and call backs. Our whole casting process is a little more intimate. Instead of bringing in four of the same type of actor to read for a part, I’ll work with the casting director to bring in four really different types to decide which direction John is going in, and then we just go after who it is he really wants.

jcpod.net: As far as shooting goes, did it progress smoothly or were there any major problems?

SKC: No it was really a very enjoyable time. It was a pretty simple shoot – the two hardest things were getting the devil in the canister to work, there was no CG in those days. And getting the bugman to work properly and dissolve was tricky because obviously we had to use real bugs. Oh and the hand through the mirror was tricky to get right. But in all we had a pretty good time on that show. The actors were really good sports. There was a lot of dialogue and they all had to be really sharp.

jcpod.net: Yeah there’s quite a bit of exposition in Prince of Darkness.

SKC: Yeah. But overall that was probably one of our least tense sets. It was a good ensemble. Sometimes when you have really good character actors, you really have a good time because they’re just no-nonsense. They just do the work.

jcpod.net: Without wanting to go too deeply into the technical details of the movie, how exactly did you achieve the canister effects?

SKC: I just remember that they had to have the churning liquid and have the lights up through it. We had lots of hoses coming out of it and we had to have the whole canister itself on a dolly while it was moving. That was pretty involved – getting it to move without destroying it at the same time. Robert Grasmere (POD’s visual effects supervisor who also played the part of Wyndham) would remember much more about how it was actually done. Really it was all about trying to convey that this rotating aquarium was actually the devil! Things that we’d find very funny on set had to have a sense of impending doom.

jcpod.net: Yes! One of the things that’s always struck me so much about Prince of Darkness is its sense of dread and impending doom. Right from the word go, the viewer instinctively knows that this won’t end well. It’s fascinating to hear about how much fun people have making movies like this, and then to witness the finished product on screen which has a totally different atmosphere. I guess that’s the magic of movies.

SKC: Sure. For instance I remember the scene where Susan (played by Anne Marie Howard) goes out back and has her hands on the railing and the beetles are crawling all over them. Those are my hands in the close-up shot – everyone was screaming at the sight of the beetles running all over them and I’m laughing like crazy!

jcpod.net: Were there many differences between the script as written and the dialogue that ended up in the movie?

SKC: No, we’re not big on improv. Usually what happens is we try to have a rehearsal period for a couple of weeks. We didn’t on Prince of Darkness – we had a little rehearsal but usually I try to have a longer one. In that rehearsal we work out the scenes ahead of time and if the actors have any other ideas or improvisations they want to try out during that period we’ll do it then. Those are then adapted into rewrites and formalised and locked down before we start shooting.

jcpod.net: Clearly the movie industry has changed a lot since the mid-‘80s when Prince of Darkness was released. Has it changed for better or worse? Is it more enjoyable or easier to make movies today? Or is it less enjoyable or harder?

SKC: Less fun and harder. It seems to change more quickly. You have to relearn the business, I used to say every five years, now it seems like every two years. The financing and the distribution patterns change constantly. A lot of that is due to the fact that the major players who own the big studios change, and then the whole banking industry worldwide changes. So the way that you go about financing your movie changes, and not just for the independents but for the major studio pictures too. Back when we did Prince of Darkness and They Live, everybody was saying that the majors were going to become distributors and not productions houses, which nobody believed. But now that’s largely the case. So even if you’re going to do a major film at the studios, you’re still often bringing in the financing yourself.

jcpod.net: Because there’s a real fear of being burned financially?

SKC: Right. That’s why you now see so many production companies on a movie’s credits, because you’re bringing in all of these financial partners. You’re even seeing competing studios partnering on films, because they’re spreading the risk.

jcpod.net: It must be quite frustrating from a creative point of view to have to wade through all of that – when you just want to get to work and make movies.

SKC: It’s frustrating because it feels like there are fewer people involved at the higher level who actually have any passion for movies. We were watching a documentary recently about the early days of the Hollywood studios, with guys like Jack Warner and Louis B. Mayer. For all of their machinations and for all of their toughness in certain areas, the thing they really cared about most of all was story-telling. They didn’t care about who controlled the weekend or who was number one at the box office – it was about story-telling for the audiences. You never hear that anymore, about the passion for story-telling. And that’s a shame. The majors only want what they called “tentpole movies” - movies that are going to spawn three or four offshoots. So that essentially they can keep making safe movies. For instance it’s very rare that you see something like Inception get made.

jcpod.net: That was a great movie.

SKC: Yeah it was great but the biggest thing is that it was daring. What you really want is for there to be a diversified portfolio of films getting made, so you get real comedies, and real dramas and pure entertainment. It’s a little worrisome.

jcpod.net: It sure is. It’s a bit depressing to see five or six different versions of something like Saw being made and watching each of them clean up at the box office. It doesn’t bode well for good story-telling in movies in the future. On a lighter note can you tell us what Storm King is working on at moment?

SKC: We have two things coming up. The biggest news that we just released at Halloween is that we’re working on a big screen version of the Darkchylde comic. The script that was brought to us by the creator of Darkchylde, Randy Queen, would’ve been an R rated version. I think in order for its true audience, teens, to be able to see it, it should be PG-13. It’s about a sixteen year old girl and how her nightmares manifest themselves – she becomes the demons she dreams about. I think it’s a great metaphor for that age and for teen angst and their guilt about what they do. It’s a little darker than Twilight but I think they really need an outlet, they need a darker fantasy. Right now that’s going through rewrites and I think it’ll be the next thing that John directs.

jcpod.net: It’s great to see him in the director’s chair again. What’s the second project?

SKC: We have a movie that I think is going to be fun called The Hell Within. A Brazilian director named Dennison Ramalho is helming that. John will be executive producer and I’m producing also. That’s a “dark magic in the jungle” set up. It should be fun and that one is definitely R rated - some good hardcore horror!

jcpod.net: Sounds great! The Ward was recently released in certain parts of the world. Were you involved with the production? Also do you know when it may be released in Ireland or the UK?

SKC: No I didn’t produce The Ward. That’s coming out in the UK in January. We just found that out from Warners International. So I think you’re the first person that’s finding that out!

jcpod.net: Wonderful! We're all dying to see it, especially since it’s John’s first movie since Ghosts of Mars. We were worried that he might have decided to retire!

SKC: Well Ghosts of Mars came out the week of September 11th and for a long while nobody in this country wanted to hear about horror. Plus at the same time we both had family members who were ill and we needed to take time off to be with our families. It seemed like the right time to stop – we’d done back-to-back movies for so long. So we just paused, we needed the break. Plus in between John did the Masters of Horror and worked on the F.E.A.R. videogame. F.E.A.R. 3 will be coming out soon in fact. But as for The Ward, yeah I think people are going to have fun with that!

jcpod.net: We’re looking forward to it. Of the many projects you’ve worked on over the years do you have one of which you're particularly proud?

SKC: Uh... gosh. I know it seems like a cliché to say this but they really are like having kids! They’ve all got their strong points. I love Starman because I met and fell in love with my husband. I love Big Trouble in Little China because it was a chance to do a completely outrageous fantasy. I love Vampires because I think it’s a really rocking movie. I love Ghosts of Mars because we managed to make a 360 degree Martian landscape in the middle of the desert. I love They Live because politically it represented a certain statement from us. And there are other movies I’ve worked on through my career like Rumblefish that I care a lot about too. But... I think Vampires is probably one of my favourites. And They Live for its political undertones. Well, all our movies have a certain political undertone to them.

jcpod.net: Really? All of your movies have a deliberate political message?

SKC: Well the ones I’m involved with do! (laughs). Even if it’s through non-traditional casting. I really like doing things that are different, that give you a point of view of the everyman, that are anti-authority and that make you question things. You’re only preaching to the choir if you make Gandhi. If you make something like They Live, with a wrestler doing an action/sci-fi movie, you get through to a lot of other people.

jcpod.net: Are you particularly drawn to horror and sci-fi?

SKC: I love all movies. I really love thrillers and I think that’s one of the things John does best. He really is a master of suspense, that’s why his horror movies work. The blood and gore can be fun but the reason his movies really work is because of the suspense. I love anything that takes you somewhere emotionally. That’s why you put down your money to go into a dark movie theatre, to go somewhere. That to me is the magic of movies and I thrive on that.

jcpod.net: Finally Sandy, I recall reading in an interview that Prince of Darkness was the only film of John’s that you haven’t been approached to remake. Is that true?

SKC: Yep! (laughs).

jcpod.net: That’s probably a good thing given the quality of some of the remakes that appeared! Although I do think a sequel to Prince of Darkness would be fascinating. It had such an open ending to it that it would be a lot of fun to see where the story went.

SKC: I always wanted to do a TV series of They Live, especially now. I think it would be fun to introduce a little anarchy. But, you know, it’s time for new stories I think.

jcpod.net: Well Sandy, thanks for talking to us. We really appreciate your time.

SKC: No problem, any time!



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